Friday, May 4, 2018

CLOSED.... CLOSED.... Tony White organizing Bloomberg STRIKERS! CLOSED....

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278 comments:

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Tony White said...

Please sign my name to the protest/strike list!

steeple said...

Why not? I'll give it a try

Tony White said...

Hey, after navigating around a bit, I understand this Blogger site better! No new updates as of Friday evening [may4], but most writers are against having to pay more subscription fees.

mb said...

Thank you for hosting this. Please add my name to the list. Who knows, maybe it will help.

--mb, aka Beatrix H.

Tony White said...

ModeratePoli,

I'll try some more tomorrow and Sunday to grow that list. Thanks, also, to 'mb' for signing it. You've have always been tough, but fair, and are super-qualified as a moderator. I hope it's not too much work for you! We needed an off-site [from Bloomberg] where they couldn't touch our list of fellow resistors to the subscriptions. Your blog site seems perfect for that. You hold a lot of respect with the more liberal crowd, and that is a plus, too. Please allow some commentors who may be more conservative than you like sign the list. I'd like to have about 100 names on the list by Monday morning. If we fall far short of that goal, well then hell, we tried! Maybe as Star Trek Next Generation said about the Borg, "resistance is futile!"

Tony White

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, you're more conservative than me, and you're here.

Tony White said...

This is true. Didn't mean any disrespect. I thought between my more conservative friends, and your more than liberal friends, we could have those 100 names pretty quickly. I've invited more of my conservative friends, since that's all I have. I thought that maybe since this was your site, the more left-leaning writers would sign up without me having to grovel to them [which is pretty hard].

Please go to the discus page regarding Musk's outburst from a couple of days ago. There is some discussion about payment walls over there. I've reached out to a few "lefties" but they don't respond to me. Maybe once they read you are involved, they will sign your list. That's what I am hoping for -- a balanced list.

Is this OK?

Tony White

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, Ok, I'll do it tomorrow. However, my sharpness has pissed a lot of people. As I said, it's too bad you don't know someone else with a website... and better manners.

Tony White said...

You do great, ModeratePoli! Who, other than you, has the credibility?

TW

Tony White said...

By the way, ModeratePoli, on Monday morning we can take our list -- however many we have by then, and post it on BV with the names of us who are "striking" against the new paywall. If it's only 4 names, then so-be-it. When the others see our protest posting, they will wish they joined us, which we can later add more names. The "snowball" effect will work to our favor! Chin up! Vive le resistance!

YAK HEARDER said...

I'm In.

Tony White said...

Yay! Yak-man is the crack in the dam! Thx Yak!!!

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, I'll need a link to the Musk article. There are too many and I'm not finding it.

Tony White said...

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-03/trump-s-hostage-lie-is-worse-than-most

Hope this helps!!!

TW

Traveler said...

Ok I am on the site. But we need to wait for more of a critical mass before we go strike. Nobody's gonna miss me.

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, OK, my span run is done. I replied with the invitation to 16 people. Tony, you'll have to be Jesus to multiple that to 100, but maybe you are.

Tony White said...

Thanks, good job. I'll write TO some more commentators later this evening also. If you want to start [or wait] for Monday, we can debate that, too. I'm tickled at our progress, and I know once the others see our work, they will join in. I've also been rolling some "strike letters" that we will post along with the names. We'll get someone's attention at BV, rest assured!

-TW

PS - Something like "we are hereby on strike to protest the unfair charging to your contributors..."

veth said...

News must be free available for everyone, not behind a pay window.

Veth

Howard Craft said...

Let's see if I'm counted....

Tony White said...

You bet you are Howard. We need a FULL spectrum of writers, from liberals to conservatives. Thank you for your support!!!

-TW

Fish heads said...

Fish heads an hour ago
Trying to. Can't seem to sign on. I'll keep trying

ModeratePoli said...

To all, I had a late night party, but I'll be updating the list by Sunday evening at the latest.

yobubba said...

Sounds good to me!! STRIKE

Tony White said...

To all on the list. We need a concensus on when to start the "protest" and post the list of (so far) 10 names. I think we should start first thing Monday morning [may7] and post it to their "from the editors" article of the day. Others can come on later and sign the petition if they want to.

Just trying to gauge everyone's feelings on that matter. I believe ModeratePoli and Mountaintraveler want to wait for more names, but the issue will be moot by then.

-TW

Tony White said...

Also, guys [and gals], we need a name for our protest. I once corresponded with a writer {can't remember who} at Bloomberg who used the term "Commentariat" when describing the other writers. I liked it, although my spell-checker did not. I would like to call us "Commentariat Protesters" or even more grammatically-incorrect "Commentariat Protestors."

Just some ideas for a name. Any ideas on a name? {And, no, we'll keep my name out of it!}

Traveler said...

MP, You need to update the list.

Traveler said...

Hey MP, how do we respond to somebody's comment? I tried to respond to Fishy, but no luck.

cowboybob said...

Yes, I support ALL the commentators on Bloomberg. Bloomberg should not charge us to comment since it adds so much to their traffic. Advertisers think that the articles are interesting by the number of commentators. Commentators are good for business. Some of the authors of the articles can learn additional information by some of the comments.

Sir Tainley said...

I've been busy, and hadn't noticed we were going to be charged.

Oh the sads. First McArdle, now this.

Traveler said...

Hey Tony, commentariat was my contribution to further mangling the mother tongue. MP, we desperately need a way to reply to comments. Must have been some party!

ModeratePoli said...

@veth, I'm not listing any Russian shills who try to sign up, so in fairness I can't list Ukrainian shills either. If Tony wants to add your name, that's his decision, or if there is strong support from the rest of the group.

Keith Fenton said...

Keith_Fenton 24 minutes ago
I've tried to sign up with no success.

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, I don't have a strong opinion on when to start, but I'm leaning towards this Monday, May 7. If we wait, people will tend to drift.

Please make a definite decision by early evening today.

Tony White said...

ModeratePoli, 'veth' signed as a favor to me. We need as many writers as possible. Please set aside your personal feelings until after we post our list -- please! That goes for "CowboyBob" as well. I also asked "Ms. Mischief" too, so please keep this non-partisan until we resolve some issues. Thanks for letting us "camp" at your home site until this storm passes.

-TW

Tony White said...

Sorry... yeah, let's hit them hard and fast first thing tomorrow early morning. I agree that the issue will become "stale" in short order, so let's post our list of 15-20 names and let that sink in at BV. What have we got to loose? We all lost our pride eons ago!!!

I'll compose a short "protest" letter to accompany our esteemed names of our colleagues. I may communicate when necessary through the Disqus site so I don't clutter your blog site.

-TW

waynerober said...

waynerober's disqus message:

waynerober, we have started a "protest list" against the new pay window at BV. We need your support! Please head over to ModeratePoli's blog to sign. Pleeeeeeeze!!!

https://moderatepoli.blogsp...
1 {********************************** this is his upvote ******************
•Edit•Reply•Share ›

Tony White said...

ModeratePoli, here is my draft to the announcement of our "strike" which will accompany the dozen or so names. Please add/modify/delete any portion of this note. The note will be your "baby."

** "We [the Commentariate Protestors] are announcing to our fellow contributors of Bloomberg View that the names listed below will be protesting the Pay Window policies enacted by Bloomberg Business this past week [May 3, 2018], and are therefore notifying our fellow writers that we will, sadly, not be participating in this week's discussions. We do this not in selfish promotion, but in the desire to keep all our opinions open and free. As contributors to the success of the opinion page, we justly feel unfairly treated to be charged for that success. BV is killing the proverbial golden goose. While we understand Bloomberg Business has to have revenue sources, doing so on the backs of the contributors is unjust and unwarranted. Please join us in protesting the paywall which will result in the demise of free and open discussion among all ideologies and incomes." ****

What do you think. The announcement is your baby. I trust it'll be spectacular!

-TW

Yak Hearder said...

YAK HEARDER Tony White • 35 minutes ago
How about just "The Commentariat" ?

Tony White said...

Where's "waynerober"? on the list?

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, I've added veth and waynerober. I'll add others who sign up, but not Russian shills like Emerson. You can add them if you want to your list, if any are ballsy enough to show up here.

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, also I liked what you wrote very much. It's your baby, not mine. However, I added a sentence at the beginning because I found it a little abrupt to declare ourselves the Commentariat as the first thing.

Tony White said...

Beautifully done. Please post it first thing tomorrow morning to their "From the Editors" column. I say this because it's usually the one that is up the longest, unless you want to post our announcement to many articles? Might get a little redundant, but you're better with that sort of thing. 14 names isn't a lot, but we may get a few who want to jump on the "Commentariate" bandwagon!

Thanks for your contributions!

_TW

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, this is your baby. You're definitely the leader. I would prefer that you post it.

Tony White said...

OK. Don't call me the "leader"! It's ALL of us! I have a hunch that the Editors will do a article based on the Pay Wall. I'll definitely post it there if that happens. Otherwise, like I said, I will post it to their "From the Editors" story, whatever the topic happens to be. You may not like Veth, but he knows the internet pretty well. He said he already noticed the "vacancy" at Bloomberg View b/c of the pay wall. It will be the death knell of their new opinion pages.

Cross your fingers we get more sign-ups throughout the week. I'd still like to see 100 of us protesting the pay wall.

Until then...

YAK HEARDER said...

Let's not rush this. It is too important and we need more sign ups. Thanks !!

Tony White said...

Yak, we hear you, but we want to stay fresh. Keeping it in the freezer for a couple of days will only cause "drifting" by the attendees. I'm hoping that throughout the week we will get more people on-board. We did take your advice to just call ourselves the "Commentariate" like you suggested. So unless we get bombed by the Russians overnight, we're going to "press" first thing in the morning. Lord help us all!

Anonymous said...

I'm - bgdg. Now if I can find another place to post at for a week.....

Tony White said...

Thx "bgdg" for the support! Yeah, it's gonna be a tough week keeping our opinions to ourselves. We really appreciate having you here!

-TW

Tony White said...

eyethink2 Tony White • 2 days ago
I think it's futile also but am willing

******* Please add per Disqus OK **********************

Tony White said...

Epstein's Mother ModeratePoli • a day ago
I suspect our collective commentary doesn't matter. But ... it is a time sink. I'm in.

Another disqus OK!

Tony White said...

ModeratePoli, an impressive list which is G - R - O - W - I - N - G !!!!

I found quite a few of your requests from your acquaintances at the conversation that we have been using to communicate with a few writers at BV. If you have time, go through the 350 or so comments to see if we've missed anyone else. I just did, but maybe I scanned too fast. Thanks, and good job!

-TW

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/bloombergview/tesla_raises_many_questions_just_make_sure_theyre_interesting_24/#comment-3889045753

ModeratePoli said...

Covfefe is in via this comment: https://disqus.com/home/discussion/bloombergview/tesla_raises_many_questions_just_make_sure_theyre_interesting_24/#comment-3887446173

johnny sunshine said...

I always wanted to be invited to the cool kids' party.

Tony White said...

Johnny sunshine -- you ARE one of the cool kids. ModertePoli will add you to our protest list, hopefully this morning. Thanks for your support!

-TW

Tony White said...

reaganite88 ModeratePoli 7 minutes ago
Thank you for the info. I will certainly join in. I am in the middle of something at work so I can only monitor from afar for now.

Traveler said...

Hi Guys, now that I see the list, I will contact those missing in my following list to add to the fun. I do think it would have been worthwhile to wait until we got a few more.

Reaganite88 said...

I am afraid that I couldn't get the toggle thing to let me add my Disqus userID but please add me to the list.

Reaganite88

Traveler said...

MP,

May I suggest that you add this sentence to the instructions?
1. Go to the bottom and post a comment.
2. then follow your instructions about ID etc.

Traveler

Tony White said...

***************************** UPDATE *******************************************

Posted to Bloomberg Monday May 7, 2018 at 8:50am

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-07/trump-s-approach-to-foreign-policy-hurts-the-u-s-and-the-world

Thank you All! Try not to get the withdrawal tremors from NOT posting your opinions for a week! I will e-mail Barry Ritholtz our letter in a few minutes...

-TW

Tony White said...

{e-mail to Barry Ritholtz:

Mr. Ritholtz:

Please note the contributors to Bloomberg's comments section are protesting the initiation of the new Pay Wall polices at their "Opinion" page.

We are doing this as a means of keeping our discussions open and free. We would appreciate your support of our efforts in the name of "Freedom of the Press"!

Thank you,
The Commentariate

**************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

STRIKE! To the editors of Bloomberg View...

Traveler said...

I trust that we can post opinions on BB articles here, cumbersome as that may be. If we log onto BB incognito, does that give them clicks anyway?

Postman Says said...

It will be rather easy for me to boycott Bloomberg Opinion, seeing as how it has started to freeze my computer when I try to visit the site. To the point that I do not even know exactly what they have done to bring on the boycott.

The site freezes, Firefox cannot even be shut down through task manager, and I have to restart the entire computer to continue. Maybe they don't like Ad-blocker? :)

Tony White said...

Lew upvoted you on The World According to Trump 6 minutes ago

"Lew" was one of those commentators I'd wish we had contacted. His history is blocked, so I do not know how to contact him. He appears to be "with" us!

Traveler said...

Tony,

Lew upvoted you, not me. I dare say though, with Shamiracle and Micah leading the way, the comments on that article do look like junk now. HB is thrashing away, but that seems to be the limit of coherent commenters. LSI demurred to join, but I will keep at him.

ModeratePoli said...

@Postman, the strike is due to Bloomberg instituting a fairly expensive paywall, and the effect that will have on the comment threads, which many of us felt was the best part. The fees for unlimited access are $10 a month for the first 6 months and then $35.

Tony White said...

Good job, 'traveler' -- I saw your pleas to get some more on board [you little salesmen, you!]. I tried in vain to get LSi also, but to no avail. He did provide some good links at the thread we were all using to communicate with on Friday, so he's helped a lot already. To his credit, he went on the record early to say that this effort of protest was going to be fruitless. Perhaps he's right. I did notice the "comments" are dull and antagonistic -- hardly Nobel material! Well, there's always ModeratePoli's blog to quell the delirium shakes, with a forum for us here. Thank you "M.P."!

Tony White said...

************ NOTE TO MODERATOR ******************************

I cleaned up my rambling, run-on sentence {second sentence} on our posting at BV. Please, likewise, add the similar "period" in the second sentence of that mistake here on this blog. Thank you!

-TW

Tony White said...

Commentariate,

What is the next course of action? Do I keep posting our protest letter once per day? Do I post it at multiple "comment" threads? Where should I post the letter?

I would also appreciate members of the "gang" posting the letter using their I.D.'s instead of mine all the time [its not about me!]. I'm sure ModeratePoli would appreciate others in the group doing the same with his link to his blog site [I didn't think it would be wise of me to do that, since I posted the protest letter.

Thank you all for sacrificing your names and time in this en devour.We are definitely swimming against the current with our protest!

- Tony White

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, I agree with your assessment that this is an uphill struggle. I looedk at four articles today. The comment threads on the editors (Trump + allies), Bernstein, and Wilkinson were pretty good even without us. The thread on Ponnuru was a mess and I bailed on reading it. It looks to me that as long as you have some sane people writing and they outnumber the stupid/insane, it's a good thread. There was enough of a mix of conservative and liberal sane people, and what needed to be said was said.

I'm not suggesting abandoning 'the endeavor.' Just doing some observation like a good scientist. One other thing. ProfWatson/cowboybob is commenting on the Bernstein piece. He seems to be in a sane phase, not an anti-Israel or porklandia phase. Seems to me that I should remove his name from our list. What's your opinion?

Tony White said...

Yeah -- he [cowboybob] violated the agreement, so he obviously doesn't care. We can add "postman" -- I think. Also, you can remove 'veth' like you wanted to originally. Another friend at an entirely different site was accosted by veth today, so you were right not to even consider veth.

Also, on a walk, I thought I'd be nice if someone other than myself posted our list of names along with their own "piece," similar to the one I wrote, but in their own words. Any volunteers? Also, someone other than ModeratePoli should post a link to his blog, that way it doesn't appear to be self-promotion [which I know you don't do]. Like I said, I would have posted a link to your blog, but I didn't want to push our luck and have our post today deleted. Any volunteers to do that?

There were a few 'upvotes' in support of our en devour today. Perhaps we could turn those 'upvotes' into a few more names.

I was thinking when the new "from the Editors" story gets published, we should, again, post our protest letter to that article. So unless I hear otherwise, that'll be the next step.

Yeah, I'm feeling dejected, but not surprised. You were wise to put a week time limit on our protest. 6 more days to go, and we can all go back to posting and calling each other names!

-TW

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, I don't feel comfortable putting Postman on the list. I'm pretty sure I saw him post today. A solid guy, but just not into the strike. I hope traveler will do the posting tomorrow. A link is to this post should be there because links are good informational tools. It's not like this is a bait-and-switch.

Tony White said...

OK re postman -- just looking for some filler [if we wind up with less than we started, well I won't say what I'll do, but it won't be law-obiding].

Is traveler prepared? He's already done a ton! If he wants to, great. I think printing the same old original posting will get stale! How about, until we have a backup, you compose a letter in your own words about pay walls on your blog [keep it short, if possible]? I'd like to see how you frame the issue.

I'll stand by either way. If I see a new from the "Editors" story I'll make sure someone else has posted our protest letter, along with their spiel on pay walls. Anyone else want to volunteer for that task mid-week? Hello... OMG! All I hear are chirping crickets! [no surprise there har har har]

-TW

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, I'll write a blurb for tomorrow, but it won't be polished because I'll just wing it. Trying to line other people up for the rest of the week. By the way, I don't regret this. It's a good experiment that had no guarantees, but really isn't a big risk.

Tony White said...

Me, too. I'm actually enjoying not having to defend myself and have to deal with the "shills." Kind of like a late Spring Break. I get tired, sometimes, of having to defend myself, really. I was thinking of quitting, anyway, so this will be a good swan song [not being melodramatic!].

I saw Fishy check in. That was nice. I wish we'd hear from the other 'guys' on the list, too. Give us your impressions, your blurb on pay walls, and what we should be doing more or less of. Give it the old college try, so to speak.

I'll shut down for the night. I'll check to see if Bloomberg posts a new "Editors" story tomorrow. I'm sure they will be discussing their new charge policy there in the coming days... you know, "we have operating expenses... blah, blah, blah..."

Over and out. Standing by...

-TW

johnny sunshine said...

I'll be happy to post my 2c in a couple of days, a bit busy just now. But you're not alone in this.

johnny sunshine said...

Of course the other alternative is that we could set up a The Atlantic Discussions-style board not technically overseen by Bloomberg at all, just Disqus users, sending invitations to anyone on Bloomberg or any similar site who's worth listening to, moderating it ourselves. The problem there is that most of us on Bloomberg are pretty busy, not just sitting around, so recruiting mods might be a challenge.

All I want is to have it not be open for only 3 hours before it's closed forever. So much esprit de l'escalier....

https://disqus.com/home/channel/theatlanticdiscussions/

Tony White said...

Johnny, you ARE a ray of sunshine!!! Thanks.

Traveler said...

Johnny, Just checked it out. I REALLY like it. Explain to me what a mod has to do? Is s/he a gatekeeper? Enforcer of "standards", or what?

Me, I would go for the politics pages, but there are plenty of other pages to look at. Kind of like how we have it set up at TRS. What I really like is that it uses the disqus interface so replies go directly to poster, not to everyone like here. (Sorry about my logorrhea.) For instance, i am looking at the "Trump threatens legal action against Mueller's team" which has 171 comments in a day.And they are pretty darn good. I suggest we migrate there, and us BB articles to post about! Just log incognito to read the text, and then comment away.

MP, TW, what say you?

Tony White said...

Jihnny, both M.P. and I are aware of how to bypass the charges [for now]. It's about NOT accepting the pay window! This will lead to certain individuals [like myself] who do not work and do not want to pay for ANY online material. Like one of the comments to our letter stated -- there are plenty of non-pay sites. We wish to keep Bloomberg with the same mix of writers it has had which has lead to its overall excellence.

Johnny, as far as the Atlantic, etc. goes, I will let M.P. parse that information [I'll do that later, after I've had time to wake up and let the coffee soak in! We appreciate your input. We will post our thoughts on your proposals in a bit, okay?

Thank you,
TW

Tony White said...

"wilmers13 8 hours ago
This didn't quite work, but you can put my name in there, can't do much harm. However, we have no entitlement to free stuff. Free stuff means 'their agenda', we have to be mindful of that."

************************************************************************************

Just FYI for now. I'm corresponding with Wilmer via disqus. I've always liked his work, and would be honored to have him join our protest. He's supposed to get back to me on affirming his TOTAL support.

I will update as needed.

-TW

Tony White said...

FYI --

New "Editors" article: The Editors
Europe’s Wrongheaded Data Rules

Who's going to post our protest letter today?

-TW

Tony White said...

Everyone -- please 'upvote' M.P.'s posting today [this way it go up on the highlight board].

-TW

Tony White said...

M.P. -- just a slight modification to today's posting: We are protesting ANY pay wall charges, even a penny!

-TW

Reaganite88 said...

Actually I am boycotting reading BloombergView as well as commenting there. If the opinion pieces are only going to be followed by comments from Russian trolls and the like then I just see no need for any of it.

Reagainte88

Tony White said...

Me. also Reaganite88. Would you like to post our protest letter tomorrow? I'm enjoying time off from the trolls and shills!

-TW

clandabbg said...

I'm in too. Good luck

johnny sunshine said...

Answering Traveler - I've never been a mod, never had quite predictable enough time free to hit the keyboard for the level of commitment they expect of their mods. My sense is that the TAD mods skim over a given discussion if they're not participating that day, usually one they regularly join, and warn people that they're getting a bit rude. If they get too out there, they're deleted, and can be blocked entirely. (Being a mod has specific powers in Disqus.) They have a mods-only chat room or blog or something to discuss actions a mod has taken (or not), or whether to ban some regular user who just won't stop insulting, usually after the fact, kind of like a review board for NBA refs' calls.

The thing that bothers me is that once a mod leaves a discussion, usually after a few hours, maybe 4, they close all comments to that board forever. And a lot of their discussions ban politics or the like entirely. I'll talk with my meat life friends about fashion faux pas or the like, thanks. And I like to weigh in late at night, or early in the morning, or respond to a comment replying to me the next day.

I don't know that a Bloomberg group would have to be so controlling. I think once you have a culture going, mostly people conform to the prevailing tone. But, again, I've never done it. And I haven't even been to TAD in at least six months. And maybe Bloomberg is actually doing some elimination of the most obnoxious posts made by machine accounts that we never see.

ModeratePoli said...

Different topic. Now that veth and profwatson are gone, I'm going to talk a bit about shills. I've been watching the Russian shills on BB for over year. At first when I heard reports of the number of shills on Twitter, I didn't believe it. However, it seemed much more plausible when I saw all the accounts Russian shills were using on Disqus.

I'm not like abcdef who calls every one who supports Trump a Russian shill. I reserve for commenters who write in support of Russia, write virulent anti-US comments, and those who upvote them. Get this--profwatson has been upvoting a lot of Russian shills. I had figured him basically as a crank who occasionally wants to be taken seriously, but the upvoting of a lot of Russian shills is odd. Maybe it's just being contrary. Who knows? However, it's another reason never to take him seriously.

veth is a Ukrainian shill. As such, he's vastly outnumbered. I don't kid myself about the Ukrainians being angels, but it's got to be tough being next door to Russia.

More about shills here: http://moderatepoli.blogspot.com/2017/02/russia-infiltrates-american-blog.html

Tony White said...

I'll listen to ANYONE's views provided it's a two-way street. I'll define shills and trolls as those who only can "output" their thoughts, and not allow any opposing views to penetrate their thick skulls. A decent, normal rational person can both "preach" and listen. I will not interact with a robot, only rational, caring people.
And while my personal ideologies are right-of-center, it doesn't mean that some of my views are left-of-center. Polarization and divisiveness are on the rise b/c people are unable to consider others' views. If you only "preach" and don't listen, then you are, by my definition, a "shill." I will always give the benefit-of-the-doubt to anyone I encounter. Once I realize that person is a phony, I will immediately cease all interaction. We all have some commonalities -- it just takes more than a few postings on a website to find those similarities. Further, I have and will continue to 'upvote' ANY comment which "moves" me and is expressed in a clear concise manner, regardless of whether I agree with the ideology behind it. I can 'upvote' someone for beautifully expressing their views, even if it challenges my view. That is the beauty of true cognitive interaction. Anything else is a waste of time!
-TW

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, you aren't going to be able to get me to follow that. It's fine, if rather naive of you. But I'd rather act on the fullness of my knowledge, and I see a lot of shills, especially on Bershidsky and Eli Lake posts. I don't care how good their arguments are--the arguments may sound good, but they serve people who aren't hoping for the greater good of the world. So I look very hard at their arguments, and I see their tricks. As one commenter said, they'd like to convince us that Putin, Stalin, and even Hitler were just innocents protecting their homelands. Ummmm, no. By the way, did you know that the shills justify the decision of Stalin and Hitler to split Poland?

Tony White said...

Then Chamberlain gave Czechoslovakia to Germany. Besides, that was 80 years ago. No living in the past [no, I'm not trying to distract you, as I do know how sharp you are]. The point I was making about being articulate was that was maybe why you saw 'cowboybob' upvoting trolls. He and I both appreciate articulate writing. I can input thousand of varying perspectives, and still make my own ultimate assessment. Who cares who they are, and what they say, "take it with a grain of salt" as the old expression goes. Or do you underestimate my abilities to make my own judgments, and anyone else for that matter [this, too, is not an attempt at obfuscation, b/c I do know how smart you are!].

JC1010 said...

I support this protest & strike fully. It's really heartening that this movement took shape. Since it seems that we no longer "exist" in the BB View/Opinion world, I'm hoping that there's new hope for the dead...so to speak. Best of luck to all of you. And thanks for this opportunity to show support.

ModeratePoli said...

@JC1010, I could be fully participating and commenting on BB this week by resetting my Chrome cookies every day. It's a good trick, and I had no trouble doing. Have you tried it? There may be an equivalent on other browsers too.

Tony White said...

Welcome aboard JC1010. Who's posting our protest letter tomorrow?

ModeratePoli said...

I don't know how good your judgment is, but it's important that you use it and exercise it. However, when it comes to commmenters here, I've been observing for quite a long time, and I can tell you things about many of them. cowboybob is more than just eccentric. There are patterns to his behavior that don't make sense. I could assure you (if you trusted me enough) that he isn't just upvoting good argumentation, but I don't think you'll believe it until you see more with your own observation.

I think I have good judgment, but I'm not into running everyone's lives. No one is good at that, which is a lesson I learned decades ago. I think the more choices people have the better, as long as it isn't a direct danger to others. (I'd be a libertarian except for the observation that the little guys need government regulation and that ridiculous gold standard dogma.) But that's enough philosophy.

Tony White said...

I concur, and I'll accept that 'cb' is no good. Doesn't matter -- we picked up JC1010 [did you add him to the B - I - G list?. One of MY buddies for a change! {Although I'm sure he'll say it's b/c of you, not me!!!!!!!!!!!}

OK, so who's posting tomorrow????????????????????????????????????????????

-TW

JC1010 said...

Thanks, ModeratePoli & Tony White. The only cookies I know anything about are chocolate chip. I'm not very computer savvy. I take that back. Saying I'm not very is a gross exaggeration of my computer abilities. I'll do my best to follow what's going on. For now, given your suggestion, I'm off to raid the cookie jar.

Tony White said...

JC1010 -- 'upvote' but I can't seem to find it! Har har har! Check in often and add to the debate on "Pay Walls" anytime. Same for the rest on the list. M.P. will update the list before morning posting our our protest letter. I've noticed a steep decline in the comments -- perhaps is just coincidence since they instituted this new pay policy. Either way, I'm sure they're [BV] noticing that they are killing the golden goose.

M.P. -- who's posting tomorrow?

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, you're posting tomorrow since no one else signed up. Try to get a definite day when Johnny Sunshine will do it (Thursday or Friday). I don't think we need to do it on Saturday or Sunday.

@EVERYONE, ARE THEre OTHER PEOPLE WILLING TO POST THE MESSAGE IN THEIR OWN WORDS TO A BLOOMBERG THREAD? PLEASE LET US KNOW HERE, PLUS WHICH DAY YOU CAN COVER.

Tony White said...

OK, I'm pretty inebriated currently... a friend of mine passed to the hinterland... let me work on a new letter reflecting the trolls/shills angle -- you know, "pay walls result in LESS freedom of the press... let me try a brief blurb. You can approve it given my current intoxication...

[standy by for update]

-TW

johnny sunshine said...

Assign me either day, Moderate. I'll be free enough.

ModeratePoli said...

@johnny, please take Thursday.

Tony White said...

********************* MODERATOR ******************************

We are hereby announcing that the contributors listed below to Bloomberg Opinion are "ON STRIKE!" to protest the implementation of their new "Paywall" strategy. Please note that it saddens us deeply not to be participating in the discussions presented, but we act in an effort to continue with the vibrant commentary which the readers of Bloomberg View once enjoyed without cost or hassle. Implementing Paywalls will only deepen the divide between who can express their views, and those who cannot. While we understand that BV is a business, BV should also know that "clicks" to a website are essential too. BV is killing the proverbial "Golden Goose" with its implementation of its Paywall strategy. Please join us if you agree that Free Journalism is essential for a free society.

{Attach updated list}

Please advise... add/modify at your discretion.

-TW

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, looks good.

Tony White said...

Good. I beat the bushes [no pun intended] over at that Tesla comment section which was our prior, informal gathering area. I'm trying [in vain] to get someone other than you and I to post our Protest Letter!

Will you make sure it's [our latest list] is posted in the morning? Please make sure it's the CURRENT list. Thx 4 all ur help, MP!

-TW

Tony White said...

Oh, wait -- I just relaized it ME who needs to post in the morning! Duh! I'll get it on when the new "Editors" article is posted. Please have your blog current tomorrow early so I can copy and paste from there. Maybe we'll get a few more sign-ups before morning?!!! Thx

-TW

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, the list is up to date, as far as I know. Good that you remembered you're posting.

Traveler said...

Just read last night's thread.

Tony, I echo your perspectives on being open to discussion, a trait I admire about you. However as MP said, some folks can be more than a little disingenuous. Cowboybob is one, often a fine gentleman one on one hand, but capable of baffling inconsistencies on the other. Part of it is I think he enjoys pulling our leg, which is technically trollery, but so long as you realize it, I don't have a problem. I used to hush him (reversible block) but now I keep him open for amusement as much as anything.

The comment about shills rings eminently true though. If all you do is parrot talking points, and cannot exchange views without ad hominems, then out you go. There are a few here that I hush regularly, but hopefully we might see a change in perspectives, no small thanks to your perspectives.

I believe we should all comment as if the postee was right in front of us, instead of relying on the anonymity of the internet to permit ugly behavior. I try to be cordial as I can, but sometimes I go off too. It happens.

Tony White said...

Just checked the "Editors" -- still the same story as yesterday! Will post last night's protest letter and up-to-date list.

-TW

Tony White said...

FYI --

Tony White 10 hours ago
Yak, where have you been? We dropped a few names, and added a few more to our "Protest List." I would like you, if you can, to post our protest list one of these mornings when they update their "editors" article. Please keep us updated as to your thoughts/criticisms. Thx
YAK HEARDER
YAK HEARDER 21 minutes ago
I'm watching our list grow and change, too bad Cowboy broke ranks. He's a favorite of mine. I will post at editors

profwatson said...

"Bloomberg joins other media companies erecting paywalls to diversify their revenue and establish a more direct relationship with readers." What is done is done.

Tony White said...

FYI -- I will still post last night's composition at "Editors" when necessary...

YAK HEARDER 12 minutes ago
I just posted as first commenter at "Tuesdays Primaries were dull,

profwatson said...

Bloomberg gives you 10 free articles a month per internet web browser. 10 for Google Chrome, 10 for Explorer. 20 articles is enough for me. There are many other search engines as well for people like cowboybob who has nothing better to do than to comment on Bloomberg when he should be doing as the Provost says. Common examples of Web browsers include Internet Explorer, Safari, Firefox and Chrome.

Traveler said...

Cowboy, like you, I still read BB. But do it incognito, which is very easy in Chrome. That way you get your freebies without having to delete cookies. Just reload once you use up your articles. Easy Peasy.

But if you want to comment, please do so only on old threads, not current ones. We want to illustrate just how lame the current leftovers are. They are indeed getting quite boring. I think the boycott is definitely having an effect on who is reading and commenting. We need to get Martin Hamilton and of course the Otter. Only sane voices left.

To comment while incognito, just go to disqus, and add Tony to one you are following. Then find the thread and post away. We have quite a thread going on https://disqus.com/home/discussion/bloombergview/tesla_raises_many_questions_just_make_sure_theyre_interesting_24/#comment-3892800179 where we can comment. Again, use the disqus interface to get there so you bypass BB.


Tony White said...

Traveler, please be ready to post our Protest Letter with your blurb, perhaps tomorrow. Just giving you some quiet time to make a composition which will be in your own words, words which are gold!

Thx
-TW

Tony White said...

Please Note:

'upvote' Yaks posting today at "Tuesday's primaries were dull..." We want to be sure that our protest letters are the most-popular on that article. We are a team, so we need to support one another until the time comes when we disband. Then, we can all go back to cursing each other and not 'upvoting' one another.

Thank you all in advance!

-TW

Tony White said...

FYI --

Fish heads 7 minutes ago
I'm going to post one smartass comment then resume the protest.
1 Reply View in discussion
Tony White
Tony White 4 minutes ago
So long as you also post the list of attendees! Can't wait to read your "smartassedness"!!!

Traveler said...

Ok Tony, I will write something up. Hard to improve your, MPs and Yak's versions, but I will give it the old college try. Was second upvote on Yak's post today.

Tony White said...

Traveler, I think Yak's has been the best thus far. I'll give mine a very, very, very close second! Bhaaaar haaaaar haaaaar! We're all adults, and damn good writers -- your version will be spectacular, this I know!!!

"Fishy" said he's posting a protest letter imminently, so I can't wait to read it. He promises it'll be "smartass," so for him to say that, it is going to a laugh-riot. It's great to read everyone's perspective, even if they are inferior to mine!!! Bhaaaaar haaaaar haaaaar!

-TW

Tony White said...

FYI --

************************************************************************************

** "0 Comments
Bloomberg Opinion
Login
1
Recommend
Share
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Start the discussion

*********************************************************************************


Matt Levine, the latest author to publish this morning at BV three hours ago -- nothing but chirping crickets!

Bhaaaar haaaaar haaaaar!

Tony White said...

FYI

Posted to "Editors" Fixing Trump’s Mistake on Iran Weds May9 1:15 EDT

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-09/fixing-trump-s-mistake-on-the-iran-nuclear-deal

-TW

ModeratePoli said...

Thanks, Tony.

TO EVERYONE, JOHNNY SUNSHINE IS ON TAP TO DO THE POSTING ON THURSDAY.

HOW ABOUT TRAVELER FOR FRIDAY?

Please check in and confirm or change the plan.

Traveler said...

I am fine with Friday, but I though Fishy was on tap for either tomorrow or Friday.

Tony White said...

MODERATOR AND ATTENDEES:

Please don't forget to 'upvote' the cystal-clear writing in today's posting by Yak Hearder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-TW

Arnold Veth said...

No content behind pay-windows..........................it must be anti-constitutional

Arnold Veth said...

No content behind pay-windows.......................

Fish Heads said...

In a moment of weakness I posted a fairly inane comment on BV and subsequently deleted it. Apologies for crossing the picket line. Anyway, since I have two Disqus accounts (different devices) I'll join the protest with this account as well. Mea Culpa.

ModeratePoli said...

@Fishy, Don't worry about it. And besides, your comment was better than a lot of them.

mb said...

I would be happy to post a comment on Saturday. I was half asleep and posted a comment to Iran Mistake today, so I hope no harm was done.
--- Bea (mb)

Tony White said...

FYI --

YAK HEARDER 16 minutes ago
Tony, did you see this ?
Iseheijiro Tony White • 3 hours ago
Tony my friend
Put me in your stlike force.

-TW

Tony White said...

FYI--

Micah718 3 hours ago
Um, waynerober is actively commenting. STRIKE BREAKER!!!

*************************************************************************************

Does 'waynerober' know NOT to post at Bloomberg?

-TW

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, I signed up waynerober on your say-so, I think. I don't have a way to contact him. Can you contact him through disqus, or was it someone else doing that? Not that I care if a troll like Micah is complaining.


Iseheijiro never came to the website to sign up. Do you still want me to add him?

Tony White said...

M.P. --

Please add Iseheijiro as he is an older man, who probably is having a hard time with navigating your site. He sent me an earlier message via Disqus, and I replied to him through that medium. I asked him NOT to comment, so I'll standby to see if he replies in the affirmative on that requirement. If he does, I will relay that to you to put him on the list.

I don't like Micah, either, but the rules are the rules! Waynerober should know the rules if he read any of our postings. So I'll believe Micah is telling the truth, and he should be removed. It's your call. If he was simply being taunted by 'Micah' and replied to her, then it may not be serious enough to warrant be barred.

Do we know who is posting tomorrow morning yet?

-TW

Tony White said...

'mb', your comment is on fire over at BV!!! 7 'upvotes' and the number one comment!!! Bringing lots of attention to our Protest!!! Making me look the fool :-( ???? Bhaaaaar haaaaar haaaaaar Just kiddeing! Great job!!!

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-09/fixing-trump-s-mistake-on-the-iran-nuclear-deal

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, Johnny Sunshine is supposed to post tomorrow. He acknowledged it on Tuesday, but hasn't confirmed today. wayne has made a few comments, but very few. Kind of like Fishy broke down and made one. I'm inclined to keep wayne on the list. I added Iseheijiro. Managing a strike is hard, isn't it? These aren't the best tools for it either.

By the way, I'll be out most of tomorrow.

YAK HEARDER said...

My thoughts about after this week's action;

- We formalize our "Mission Statement" which essentially is already done 90%.

- For the next month, (with above MS) we double or triple our list of Commentariate Members by asking them to join. (we've got 20 members now, who associate with others)

- In another month or so we call another one week strike with a larger membership.

- We don't expect instant response, we just keep the pressure on kinda like a pointy finger in the rib.

Tony White said...

OK -- we'll put the protest on "cruise" and take a break tomorrow. I think letting others help carry the load has paid off, so perhaps tomorrow more of the group will pick up the slack, if any. The first couple of days was "hardish," but I believe that it's just knowing who will be posting that day. Could you, please (before you go) put the Strike rules up in a prominent position. To be honest, I may have rushed a few participants to join, and may NOT have stressed NOT to participate at BV this week; it's also in our statement letters, so, maybe the "flock" is straying? We need "hearder" dogs to rein-in the strays!!! Grrrrr!

Still having fun, though. You?!!!

-TW

Tony White said...

********************* POST TO LEDGER *************************************



Iseheijiro 20 minutes ago
Yes, I do commit. Michael Bloomberg wote that people needs to discuss. Now they want to charge for dscussion? I have no word.

Nobuyoshi Ozaki said...

Gents, I am with you. Nobody is perfect. That is why we exchange opinions and some time disagree. Iseheijiro

ModeratePoli said...

@Tony, my brain is fried tonight. I'm not sure we need rules, and I definitely can't figure out how to make a set of rules that doesn't look like I'm trying to explain a strike to first graders. If you write a list, I'll post it though. Because, duh, I'm the person who can.

I thought Yak was smart to be thinking about the future. I have been thinking too, so I'll set up another thread on Friday for plans and reactions.

Tony White said...

Iseheijiro, nice to have you aboard Flagship "Commentariate" {copyright-traveler}.

Good words that "nobody is perfect." I think we can ALL agree on that one. ^ [that's my unoffical, strictly for appearence, 'upvote' indicator!!!]


-TW

Tony White said...

M.S. -- yeah, since you admitted to it, I'm "fried," too. My landlord passed, but he was like a big brother to me. I may go on another bender tonight [is that what they call it?] and turn off the freakin laptop tonight -- just go old-school for an evening.

Yeah, Yak was wise to think about "what if..." Let's all roll it around in our heads for a day or two and come up with a game-plan. Like I said previously, I will stop posting at BV under the present path. "Baaadges -- we don't need no stinkin' baaaadges!"

I'll check to make sure The Commentariat have a new posting tomorrow, so relax!!! Take the day off, M.P.

-TW

johnny sunshine said...

So here's my proposed post this morning. Comments welcome, though I'll need to post it in a few hours so I hope it's not too far off base from the general sentiment. I thought it might be good to have a slightly different version in different people's own words so people read it rather than dismissing it as already read, if people are up to it. I was thinking of posting it under Noah Feldman's column today:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-09/russian-ties-to-cohen-shell-company-follow-the-money

"We are a group of commenters who believe that Bloomberg's recent decision to restrict regular access to Bloomberg View to people who can afford $420 a year significantly hurts many of us. It hurts Bloomberg as a company, by taking Bloomberg's fact-based, incisive reporting out of the reach and out of view of most Americans. Including many who might go on to subscribe to Bloomberg's other far more lucrative offerings as they climb the career ladder. It hurts our nation, at a time when it's all too easy to find truly fake, but free, news drowning out real news. And it will almost certainly seriously hurt something we, as serious commenters, believe we have contributed to over the last few years - a civil dialogue between expert opinion and people all over America, with different life experiences and cultural backgrounds and income levels. This decision, while not adding much at all to Bloomberg's bottom line, will mean that, as in so many other areas of life, only those with ample disposable income get to participate in a civil national discussion that, we think, enriches not only us but Bloomberg as well. Don't take away our agora!

Serious commenters, please join us in our strike protesting this paywall. Already on board:

Tony White
Steeple
ModeratePoli
mb
Yak Hearder
mountaintraveler (traveler)
Howard Craft
Fish heads
yobubba
Sir Tainley
Keith Fenton
waynerober
bgdg
eyethink2
Epstein's Mother
Covfefe is my slave name
Johnny sunshine
Reaganite88
clandabbg
JC1010
Iseheijiro"

Traveler said...

Johnny, I like it! Good job. My vote is to go for it.

As to any strikebreakers, I think we should live with a 1 (or 2) comment limit. Fishy's double period was indeed elegant IMO. I know its hard to resist, but stick with it for another day and then we can post away.

I really think we got a point across though. I will go after some of the more notable exceptions for the next go round. I think just us discussing this over the next week should garner more interest.

Fishy, I cannot write a tenth the irony you can, so my vote is for you to write tomorrow. If it is me to post tomorrow, I want to reiterate how we are from both ends of the political spectrum, yet can disagree cordially and cogently, as MP has requested. I hope this civility persists when we descend into the trenches. If so, this has been worth it already IMO.

johnny sunshine said...

Just posted with a few tweaks, currently the first and only comment, on this article:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-10/china-s-industrial-spies-elude-outdated-u-s-vacuum-cleaner

johnny sunshine said...

Argh. Still the first and only comment, but it's here:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-10/trump-is-right-on-china-trade-wrong-on-tariffs

These run-on tablet-and-phone-friendly scrolling web pages make finding the address of an article tricky now and then.

ModeratePoli said...

@johnny, that was great. You went into more depth about the importance of the exchange of opinions, which hopefully will resonate with the editors and other readers.

Tony White said...

Posted Protest Letter

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-10/don-t-separate-immigrant-children-from-parents-at-the-border

-TW

Fish Heads said...

Traveler, I'll post a strike related comment in the morning.

Traveler said...

OK, I'll do Saturday.

Anonymous said...

Uhm, maybe we should save "Traveler" for Monday morning?

Traveler said...

Appreciate the suggestion very much, but we will be off strike then, no?

Peter Weiss said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tony White said...

FYI [Quality of comments continues to descend...

Austrian School writes this well thought-out expose about immigration, and this is his response: "al-bone-digas AustrianSchool • an hour ago
Employers don't usually care about a single thing on Earth if it doesn't have a dollar sign in front of it..."

Or Shirmiracle-if-i-see-you-your-ass-is-grass shithead calling me [and Micheal Bloomberg] faggots. It's descended into childish remarks, without insight or intelligence.

I really hope the faggots and morons at Bloomberg realize their web-site is turning to excrement!!!

I'll continue the strike for another week. I'll contact those currently striking and ask if they want to continue or not. I see no reason to go back to the way things were, while there is still a paywall.

Comments?!!!

-TW

Traveler said...

You long hair hippy! :)

I agree they are crap. But there are still good folks out there. Who we need to recruit, and we cannot do that hiding out here. So I think Yak's suggestion has real merit. Lets get rid of our week's worth of no comment Jones' and have fun ripping those guys new assholes next week, and chat up the next strike starting the 21st. Hopefully, we will get enough additional to attain a critical mass. We are close, but some good posters still out there. I am mighty impressed with what we have done so far.I think we can make it better. Poor Dog cannot log on here due to his security clearance.

And folks, don't forget, you get BB for free if you go incognito, and just comment from your disqus feed. So I don't want to hear about folks leaving because they cannot afford free.

JC1010 said...

Johnny - I think your post for today is great. Thanks for the good work. Tony - Good to know your're continuing the strike for another week; but, honestly, I'm confused. From my perspective...well, I can't figure out...no, I'll start again. I'm not on BV anymore, because I can't afford it. If I were more skilled I guess I could not be on it, yet still be on it without financial consequences. I leave all that higher computer level stuff to you guys. I'm just staying off. YAK - good thinking for the future. You're the strategist for the group. Take care, all of you and good luck.

Fish Heads said...

Just did a little lurking on the BV. Very few comments on any of the articles I looked at, even a Francis gun piece which generally drives some traffic. And the comment quality has dropped off considerably. I'm under the impression that their are a lot of folks that are doing their own silent protests.

Traveler said...

Yeah, there was a snide response to today's post about us being a bunch of left of center freeloaders. Definitely a major dropoff. I will work on getting LSI and DCoronata to join us for the next go round. OTOH, of course the Russia piece had 340 drivebys. I must say Russian trolls are getting much better. They obviously think BB is worth paying for!

JC1010 said...

Traveler - Some people on here mentioned a way to defeat the firewall; it had something to do with cookies...deleting them, I think. Stuff like that is beyond my abilities/understanding. But maybe it's not beyond the abilities of the Russian bots. I read an article somewhere else talking about Russia setting up their own Great Firewall of China and targeting one IP who wouldn't get with the program. That IP dodged through 19 million different addresses, and the commissars wack-a-moled them each step of the way. Doing all that probably takes less than a second, but 19 million impressed me. Anyway, thanks for the news.

Traveler said...

Folks, I am having second thoughts about the freeloader part of things though. I may be left of center, but I really don't have a problem with paying content as good as BB. But certainly not for $420 a year. So while I can empathize with folks that cannot afford that amount (and you dont need to pay it anyway going incognito), I have a hard time protesting for free access. I can handle the 10 bucks for WaPo, and I can add another 10 for BB. Cripes my local rag sheet is $18 for the print and online versions. Got rid of the NYT (at $15) for its mendacious reporting during the election. Gotta make choices. So I cannot in good faith toe to the striker line as much as some of you want.

As a result, I am wondering if you really want me posting on the strike?

Tony White said...

Traveller --Go, then, little lamb. Be with the flock. Away with you!!! We'll take your name from the list!!!

-TW

Tony White said...

Freedom of the Press versus Free Speech:

They are not the same, as one commenter said we were trying to use the veil of the First Amendment to justify our Freedom of the Press. Don't let that comment trip you up.

Here's an article I found titled "Free Speech and Free Press Are Not the Same: One Has Standards"

Interestingly, the Press does have to "...act as a public gateway to information..." and be "balanced."

Source: https://patch.com/california/lamesa/free-speech-and-free-press-are-not-the-same-one-has-standards

Traveler said...

Yo, I wasn't about to go, nor violate the strike. I joined complaining about the fee being inordinately high, not having to get BB totally free. I didn't know that was the whole objective, to be honest. If so, then boot me out.

I might have I wasted a week, but it sure was fun nonetheless. I enjoyed the discussion, and I will really miss those of you disinclined to go back to BB. I value this community a lot, and I think this strike has made a point.

Lets hope they even go for the $10. I aint holding my breath, but I think that is far more possible that tilting at the free windmill. Hopefully many of you will agree. In which case, we keep on keepin' on. (dates me!)

Jes' sayin'...

Ciao


PS. Hope you all use the incognito option to keep in touch.

ModeratePoli said...

@Traveler, my apologies. My mistake, fixed now.

YAK HEARDER said...

Let's end our strike on schedule as posted (keep our credibility). Then we all can be free to lobby individual commentators we normally agree with and pull them into the fold (get them to put their names on the list)
- I think our 1 week strike got notice, we don't want to over do it. We want them to see the difference we made and that will happen when we come back next week.
- As for the "Free" comment. We don't want anything free, Our main point is that the paywall will not increase BV revenue but it will hurt both BV and readers as well as commentators.
-I believe they will realize their "Paywall" was a "everyone else is doing it" excuse for management to "Do Something". (Bad Idea)
-Let's go back to normal and just focus on expanding our list of names, especially with those that are good daily regulars.
-We don't have to be "On-Strike" to show our growing list of supporters. If we strike too often we will have a tougher time gaining members.
- Paywall = fewer regular readers = fewer "up votes" (we strive for up-votes)
-Let's give BV room to breath and ponder, we don't want to look adversarial, we just want to influence a bad decision.
- We don't want to burn out before they realize we are actually a common sense group who make good sense and Do provide a good (uncompensated) service to them and their readers.
- Let's just focus on gaining membership.
-BV is a big corporation which never do anything fast nor even well, therefore our job is to grow our list and to work gracefully to change their minds, (For every one's good)
-It may take months to change their minds, we just want to be constant to work for that goal.
- If we grow enough, we will become their discussion, maybe even a story.
- Patient's is key !!

Fish heads said...

As is customary in any strike, I propose we negotiate. I'll toss out a proposal in the morning, post it, email it to Shipley, and copy Trump. He makes all the best deals and no doubt will stand in solidarity with the Comentariat.

Tony White said...

Yak and Fish heads -- it comes down to this: Is Bloomberg a member of the Free Press, or are they fake news? I say so long as they are trying to profit from the valuable contributors who offer their expertise to the public discourse should not be charged. Further, the fee immediately changes the "balance" of its reporting; balance is hindered by charging ANY fee.

Would you guys either agree or disagree that Bloomberg Opinion will be the same as the old, open access site they operated PRIOR to initializing this foolish game of NOT leaving money on the table? Once profit becomes the motive in Journalism, then its integrity is forever ruin. Am I wrong? I know I'm a crazy lunatic, but aren't I correct to say that things will never be the same at Bloomberg under this new cloud of money grubbing.

-TW

Tony White said...

An reputable news organization allows for easy, unencumbered public discourse.

-TW

Fish heads said...

I'm thinking along the lines of charging the shitoutofpeople for everything but the opinion page. Opinions should be free. Hell, I can get free opinions from my neighbors when I check my mailbox. I don't know anyone who's opinion I'd pay for. A penny for your thoughts is a penny too much. That being said, I value the opinions of the Comentariat. Plus it's fun. Things will never be the same at BV anyway, they seem to have replaced the great writers with newbies. I miss McArdle. She drove a thousand comments per post with a great Comentariat that mostly left with her. I'm not giving in, let's just negotiate a fantastic Trumpian deal. Could take a while.

Traveler said...

Based on what I hear from Yak and Fish, I am thinking I could condense this down for consumption Saturday. (that is if still on the island.) I was going to say something similar, like who wants to pay for Pursuits? Shit, I missed out on the Rolls SUV!!!! What a bummer....

So getting back to it, what Fish says has serious merit. Why not try to negotiate something we are actually OK paying for?

Tony White said...

Traveler, don't let some shithead {the guy who replied to my posting today, saying liberals want free stuff} make you feel guilty for standing up for Freedom of the Press. The Free Press has a duty to offer public discourse. I Love what Fishy said -- a penny for someone's thoughts is too much! Be a proud member of the Commentariate! We are fighting for something significant. Why would anyone pay a news organization a fee to offer expert advice? It makes no sense. Unencumbered, easy access is what made Bloomberg View so special.

I saw this exact scenario played out already in my hometown. They had a great, fun community who commented online [for free] on community topics presented in the local newspaper online forum. Of course, our local paper was looking for cash, so they decided, like BV, to put up a paywall. Now, no one comments there anymore. What was once a nice feature was forever tainted by them trying to charge their contributors a fee.

Think about the importance of our mission, and don't let some punk guilt you into feeling bad for wanting unencumbered access to your community discussions.

-TW

mb said...

I really liked Johnny Sunshine's comment on BV. Excellent points.

As part of the conversation, it should be noted that Disqus does charge publishers by the pageview volume. The top published pricing is $99 per month for between 50,000 and 150,000 pageviews a month. Over 150,000 pageviews/month must be negotiated with Disqus by the publisher.

I pay $14.99 a month for Seattle Times digital. It's worth it for the occasional great investigative reporting on a local level. Plus they have their own print plant, so hoping they will keep going. It has commenting, but does not use Disqus. None of the below use disqus.

Financial Times has a digital subscription offer right now for approx. $28 a month if you subscribe for a year.
WSJ is approx. $22.00 a month.
NY Times basic digital is $8 a month.
Washington Post is approx. $5.99 a month for digital subscription.
Foreign Policy digital is currently $5.99 a month
Wired = 1 year for $10.00
Forbes = 1 year for $20.00

Yes, I like Bloomberg. But the only thing that makes it unique is the writers on the Op/Ed page and the Comment section. I don't see how they're going to get the $10 a month, much less the $35 a month.

johnny sunshine said...

My thinking is that, as the Slate review of Bloomberg's paywall mentions, Bloomberg loses tons of money on its TV channel. It makes tons of money on its time-sensitive financial-professionals news business. I understand that a lot of the stories we read, at least on the news side, are available a couple of hours earlier to subscribers, so they can use it in the market before the hoi polloi get access.

Bloomberg loses milligrams (sticking with the metaphor) of money on Bloomberg Opinion. I was hoping to keep Bloomberg Opinion entirely paywall-free, and I think it's in Bloomberg's corporate interest to do so, not to mention the national interest, simply to keep Bloomberg's news operation on the radar of the general public. It's far cheaper to keep the columns free than the TV shows.

Tony White said...

By the way, " ^ " {arrow up} for Fish heads comment. "... I don't know anyone who's opinion I'd pay for. A penny for your thoughts is a penny too much."
*******************************************************************************

[And since I read we can do minor swearing] too fucking funny!!!

-TW

Tony White said...

mb --

nice research! It gives credibility to Bloomberg's [so far not expressed] argument for collecting fees.

Really, though, it's not our concern how Bloomberg runs his businesses. What I know is that Bloomberg ain't gettin' a friggin' penny out'a me! No way!

-TW

mb said...

Tony,

Oh dear. :( I was trying to say the opposite. IMHO no way is Bloomberg worth the same as any of the other publications I listed. Financial Times is the premier business publication in my book-- Bloomberg doesn't even come close.

And there are so many great places to get valid news and valid professional opinions for free.

Maybe that's another thing we could all do -- research other good places to comment. I'd go back to MJ, except I really like reading the more rational conservative points of view, and they don't go there much. I'm thinking I might end up at the Fiscal Times (started by Peter G. Peterson -- it's pretty conservative, doesn't have all the great writers, and doesn't have a lot of commenters). Hmmm, maybe I'll go stir up some trouble over there. Ha, ha. --- Bea

Tony White said...

Bea,

you're a helleva writer, and I ain't blowin' wind up your skirt! What Bloomberg HAD was special. If you just threw out some garbage, there were 5 qualified responses to tell you otherwise. Finding another venue is an excellent idea! I'm sure ModeratePoli is working that angle as well. For now, we have his site to at least log our complaints/comments there. Even though his blog is limited on how we interact, it at least, provides that open and unencumbered access which is crucial to the success of any site.

Please let us know how you think this "Commentariate" experiment should proceed. Yak's earlier notes provide a framework going forward. I get that most of the attendees are a little weary, and want a break from active protesting. ModeratePoli is holding his cards for now, but it hinges on his willingness to go forward. Maybe he's a little burned-out from all the drama of keeping all of us on the same page.

Keep those thoughts coming, 'mb'!

-TW

Fish Heads said...

Posted here:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-11/want-a-recession-forecast-ask-a-machine-instead-of-an-economist

Tony White said...

New "Editors" article with no comments. Do we need to post here as well?

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-10/malaysia-s-new-leaders-need-to-be-as-bold-as-its-voters

-TW

Tony White said...

"Mr. Bloomberg, tear down this wall..." PRICELESS! LMAO!!!


https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-11/want-a-recession-forecast-ask-a-machine-instead-of-an-economist

-TW

Tony White said...

FYI --

Posted to new "Editors" article

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-10/malaysia-s-new-leaders-need-to-be-as-bold-as-its-voters

-TW

Traveler said...

There aint no way I can even begin to approach Fishy's masterpiece of this morning. I guess it answers the free vs. pay issue in my favor so I am not off the island and will be posting tomorrow. So I will try to come up some lame pablum about how the comments have crashed, among other things.

Fishheads, copying Mike Bloomberg and POTUS was effing brilliant!!!! You missed your true calling.

Tony White said...

Traveler, glad you will be representing the Commentariate tomorrow morning! Relax, and have fun with it!

-TW

Traveler said...

So I took the liberty of commenting on Fishy's thread with LSI.

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/bloombergview/the_time_is_right_to_fix_the_presidential_line_of_succession/#comment-3896234956

I think we can get quite a few more strikers by going after a reasonable fee for BV access only. I just hope the potential/actual dropouts from BV stick around. A lot of folks missing these days. Its not just us 20 or so. We gotta get the guys from the Gulch. I will disqus up Power Girl and see if I can get some traction there. He has asked me to join in the lame WaPo commentariat on McMegan, so maybe I can get him to return the favor.

Fish Heads said...

We need the old McMegan comentariat. Hubris and Bruno would be having a field day with this. Haven't seen Ratio or Otter around either. Post away tomorrow. I'll be out mistreating saugeye and abusing wiper.

Traveler said...

PG is private, so I cannot track him down via disqus. I have no idea why folks do that. I will try through WaPo. I note that bleech is also gone. I would say at least half of the crew are gone, if not more.

Tony White said...

****************** Please be sure to Upvote "Go_Getter" of the week *******************

Please, we need to acknowledge everyone's hard work this week, but I'm especially pleased with "mb" effort May 9, 2018 which garnered 9 VERY significant 'upvotes' from many prominent writers at BV [you all know to whom I refer, primarily two-white elephants in the room, the two NOT being ModeratePoli or myself!]. Good job 'mb' of bringing attention to our cause!

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/bloombergview/air_france_klm_can_afford_to_end_strikes_02/#comment-3893123923

-TW

Traveler said...


Folks,

Today's post is up.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-12/trump-s-unimpressive-blueprint-for-lowering-pharmaceutical-prices

Now go to disqus, find me (hopefully following), and upvote without burning a free article.

Who wants to take on tomorrow?

Traveler said...

Folks, I think mb should do tomorrow's post.

In the meantime, I have composed a letter to Editor Shipley:

[quote]Dear Chief Editor Shipley,

Perhaps by now you might have realized the extremely poor comment quality of late, as many of us have completely stopped commenting in response to the egregious paywall Bloomberg just imposed. We understand that you need revenues to partly defray the cost of your excellent reporting and opinion pages. But $420 a year is just way too much. That is not worth the price of admission, especially compared to FT, and will drive all of us away.

We care for our community enough that Yak Hearder, Tony White and ModeratePoli (a refreshing collection of commenters if ever there was one!) has organized a strike of the undersigned. We all joined to show that whether LOC or ROC, we all unite in our opposition to the inordinate fees that Bloomberg is now charging. All we want is a fair shake, not some $420/y gouging.

Perhaps a Basic Tier for just the News, Politics, Technology and Opinions? Call that Bloomberg Basic. We don’t need access to Markets, Pursuits, Crypto, Wealth or Video. Call those Bloomberg Deluxe. We think this is a viable solution, and hope you concur.

It would be a total shame if an entire community of some of the brighter commenters on the internet are driven away by what amounts to an infinitesimally small amount of revenue.

We sincerely hope you will favorably consider our request. Bloomberg is a very important part of our daily news, and we hate the thought of losing it, and even more, losing our community.

We look forward to your response. [/quote]

Folks, let me know what you think, and I will post this later today. And copy Mike Bloomberg.

JC1010 said...

Traveler: Yes, definitely yes. Thanks for the good work.

Anonymous said...

I get there's a crisis in funding media content production of all kinds. Especially journalism. Clickbait embeds aren't doing the job, because they lied enough that we learned to ignore them. Javascript-bloated ads are so heavy and crash into each other so much they crash our browsers, in an uncanny repeat of the crisis that led radio broadcasters to petition the president to create the FCC a century ago. Which is how you forced us to install ad-blockers. Well, charging contributors $hundreds/year isn't going to work either. Trying to squeeze more money out of each visit or visitor will not work. You have to get the traffic up.

The only thing that will work is serious, original investigative journalism. You're competing with Rolling Stone and The Atlantic and Vanity Fair and The Intercept and Democracy Now! now. You can't afford, any more, to ignore the stories CNN and NPR won't go near, just because they offend the powers that be. It isn't journalism if it doesn't offend the offenders, it's stenography. So quit fooling around with contributor subscription fees, and find some reporters who know how to get to the bottom of a story that affects people's lives.

9.8 meters per second per second said...

The above comment was me. I haven't used blogger in years.

Traveler said...

So I have been flogging away with my commenting privileges trying to recruit more folks. LSI is going to join the ranks, so got at least one. 9.8m/ss, shall we add your name to the growing list?


Are you all OK with that letter to Shipley?

ModeratePoli said...

@traveler, I like that letter. Please post it on a thread or two also.

Traveler said...

Sorry, steeple should come off the list for extensive commenting. Add LSI though. I will send the letter and copy to the board.

Traveler said...

OK, letter posted on BB.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-11/watergate-hangover-is-still-tormenting-liberals

Traveler said...

Damn scrolling feature. Which is one reason why they likely cannot serve tiers unless they have two different sites. Who knows though?

Its here:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-12/trump-s-unimpressive-blueprint-for-lowering-pharmaceutical-prices

ModeratePoli said...

@Traveler, I'll add LSI. Thanks for your work on this.

About Steeple, I thought we had an OK to relax the strike for the weekend. It's been a long week even if it's not over yet. I'd like to keep him on unless he wants to leave.

Traveler said...

MP, I will leave that up to you, Tony and Yak. Gents, you have done a great job, and you have earned the right and duty to make the calls. However, I do believe we need to be consistent. And we cannot have too many cooks, so I am recusing myself.

So if weekend commenting is OK by any of you, fine by me. But I do feel our impact is best displayed when we operate unanimously. So having the designated poster of the day out there casting for candidates is one thing. But trickling out comments from the group is counterproductive. I want to unleash all of us at once. Preferably when the week's news cycle start. I am all for making this work.

So just let us know the rules, and we will do our best to live with them.




ModeratePoli said...

To all, I'm relaxing a bit this weekend. I fired one comment at the most annoying Russian shill (Emerson), but I'll stay with the spirit of the strike.

We really need to have the plan worked out for next week!!!!!!!!!! Are we still on strike? If so, everyone will want to know and need to know before Sunday evening.

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