Wednesday, December 7, 2011

The pulse of Republican regret 2008

In researching the roots of the Tea Party movement, I read many blogs. More illuminating than the posts were the comments. This is a selection, but often they are best read in context, with counterpoints, insults, and disagreements aired in a long stream. One comment can be egregious, next a thoughtful one. Most comments come from HotAir, a conservative multi-blogger site that excludes casual commenters. I highly recommend clicking on the links to get the flavor of discussions.

Here are some of the comments I found significant.

Disappointment with McCain as Nominee Apparent
When we lose in November it will teach us a lesson. We need to nominate a candidate who represents all 3 legs of the stool next time, none of our candidates did that convincingly this time around, not even Fred in reality... We need to get behind guys like Coburn and Demint, they are the future. - HotAir comment 2/5/08

Dirty Tricks on Hated Dems
The Dems are faced with two fantastic options:  If he wins, they will run this boob against an experienced, established, generally liked Senate leader. And The Obama will lose. If the Super Delegates back Hillary they will face riots and that will make me so happy I’ll have to dance around my front yard.
I’ll vote for Hill-rod on the 5th! - HotAir comment, 5/24/08, when Hillary was staying in the race.

I DO question his Patriotism, his Judgement, his Americanism, etc. I consider him, and most of the “Democratic” “leadership”, nothing but out, and outright Traitors for their disgraceful conduct during the past 7 years, against this President, the Troops, etc. But Hey, what would I know, I just served in Iraq the first time around in the Marine Corps, lived over their, speak their language, and have analyzed them for the last 30 years. - HotAir comment 7/25/08

Bailout Mania
Harry Reid’s statement shows me that the DEMS are scared $hitless. They don’t have the confidence to say we are/or are not voting for this and Barack believes this and he’s voting this way. NO! He’s telling us what McCain is going to do. He has no idea what McCain’s going to do! Someone else above said it right… I’ll believe it when McCain or at least someone from his own party or campaign tells us he’ll support it.
I repeat… the problem is, we don’t know the details. Who among us has read the bailout plan and would understand it if we read it? I would appreciate getting the chance to read it however. - HotAir comment 9/23/08

Same Story, Different Names
There is already a strong vocal populist opposition, Gingrich adds to it, and the democrats are instictively inclined to not do anything Bush wants done. The democrats have been effective in deflecting any responsibility for their own actions, and the democrats have so effectively destroyed the Bush Administration’s credibility that the democrats could just adjourn congress without being blamed for the results.[emphasis added] - HotAir comment 9/23/08

 The Long Confidence Game

Obama's 'Organizer' Buds Pushed for Bad Mortgages - NY Post 9/29/08

Obama and the Strategy of Manufactured Crisis
... He can be tied directly to a malevolent overarching strategy that has motivated ... the most destructive radical leftist organizations in the United States since the 1960s.... I submit to you that they [Democrats] understand the consequences... the goal is more malevolent - the failure is deliberate. Don't laugh. This method not only has its proponents, it has a name: the Cloward-Piven Strategy. - James Simpson, blogger and former White House economist 9/28/08

The Irony of a 2008 Dream Candidate
My Dream: President Bush appears on national television to give a speech. Standing next to  him are Dick Cheney, Mitt Romney, and Warren Buffett. Dick Cheney says, “I resign.” President Bush says, “I thank Vice President Cheneyfor his service. I appoint Mitt Romney to be Vice-President. He is a skilled financial manager. Just the guy we need right now.

Romney is sworn in as Vice President. President Bush starts talking again. “Right now America needs a leader. Due to my standing in the polls, regretfully, I have lost credibility with the American public. I hereby resign.

Romney is sworn in as President. Mitt Romney starts talking. “Secretary Paulson has done a good job, but people just aren’t listening to him. I hereby fire him. In his place, I appoint Warren Buffett as acting Secretary of the Treasury. I thank Mr. Buffett for serving his country in its hour of need.” Romney and Buffett then get the Paulson plan passed and FDIC insurance limits increased. Romney appoints Ed Morrissey as Vice President. America is saved." - HotAir comment 9/30/08

Too Late to Criticize
Oh, and NOW you want McCain to criticize GW Bush? Where were you when McCain bashed Bush and Rumsfeld in 2004 and 2005? Saying that was proof of what a horrible guy he was, for daring to criticize Bush? How about a few months ago when McCain visited LA with Gov Jindal, and (correctly) said that the Bush administration civilian response to Katrina was incompetent? How about when McCain criticized Chris Cox? Were you one of the people calling McCain a traitor for those criticisms? But you now expect him to take your advice and go on a full on crusade against Bush/Paulson/Pelosi?
Yeah, you want him to win." HotAir comment 9/30/08

McCain seems to be resigned not to win. Just this morning, I woke up with the realization that he will not win this thing, no matter what we do. But we MUST vote for him nonetheless. The enemy is too strong to overcome. The Big Temptation of the Pied Piper is too strong to break. And America will follow him to the cave, and then, to Marxist servitude. Yet, we still have to make a stand. We MUST make a stand. - HotAir comment 10/5/08

Equal Opportunity Delusion
Why do the libs always believe that voting out irresponsible repubs automatically means wholesale acceptance of every whackjob democrat plan ever devised? Guess what, Rahm, 2000 and 2004 also saw two consecutive elections where the people “voted for change”, yet you and the rest of the left cried foul.
The libs ALWAYS make this mistake, this time it will cost us plenty before they are done.
Bend over, here it comes. - HotAir comment 11/19/08

Their Mess Now
And just what are you going to say when it all falls apart? “It’s all George Bush’s fault”? What is striking is how smug and clever these people sound right now. Come January, we’ll see how they face reality when it comes up and kicks ‘em right in the nuts.- HotAir comment 11/19/08

The Trouble With Voters
Remember that the voting public are practically brain dead zombies with an average 70 IQ... they go by impressions alone not policies.  - HotAir comment 11/19/08

Pre-Emptive Blame, Before Inauguration
High unemployement.
Low dollar value.
Low consumer confidence.
Gob’ment control of corporations.
I blame Obama. And on 1.20.09, I’ll blame him even more." - HotAir comment 1/9/09

Bambi’s got lots of super lefty ideas to choose from, we’ll all be up to our armpits in a glorious economy before long, I tell you. - HotAir comment 1/9/09

I wonder if the Obama supporters understand that the “you” might include your boss or employer whose company makes over $250,000? ...Wrap that all up in a pretty socialist bow and it’s no wonder that with the messiah in control the pink slips are flying out in record numbers. - HotAir comments 1/9/09

Extra. Over the top Tea Party video. Long on fear, very short on policy.


Anonymous said...

Well MP, I hope this research helps you to see some of what I have been saying is accurate regarding the GOP and Right's straegy vis-a-vis Obama. Policy difference had little to do with it. From their perspective, anything other than their complete control of things is unacceptable on any level and, hence, the opposition is evil and must be stopped.

I'm sure you could find similar left-leaning commentary throughout the Bush years. I'll give you that. And many Dem elected officials and thought-leaders fought Bush's initiatives every step of the way and called him names just as bad.

But there is a HUGE difference there. First, Bush hardly even won in 2000, but claimed a mandate anyway and used GOP control of Congress to ram through exactly what he and the GOP wanted: a huge tax cut for the wealthy. Then, he rammed through wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and used them to pillory his opponents as anti-American if they didn't support any stupid idea he had for the war. And many Dems let him get away with it and even voted for the nonsense. All that time, the GOP controlled the government completely.

Can you say the same about Obama in the two years the Dems had control? Did he get 100% of what he wanted from his agenda? Of course, the answer is no. HCR was watered down. The stimulus was mostly tax cuts. The GOP got tax cut extensions. They filibustered everything else they could. They continue to block anything in Obama's agenda.

While the thought-leaders in the GOP and the Right were immediately plotting to take down Obama as soon as it became clear he would win election by a mandate-sized margin, the GOP elected officials went along with it. The Dem elected officials caved. That's not a sign of strength for the Dems -- I'll grant you that -- but it's not a sign of strength for the GOP either. It's a sign of adolescense.. That they would also challenge Obama's legitimacy, state unabashedly that he "hates America" and so forth, is dangerous.

If they get back control of the federal government, watch out!! They will pass all sorts of laws to ensure that they always have control of the agenda. Bye-bye filibuster. Hello voter-ID laws, national ID cards, fence at the border, etc. And there will be a war with Iran, just to keep the people occupied.

ModeratePoli said...

One point: you say Bush rammed "through exactly what he and the GOP wanted." Well, not exactly. You can't ram things through Congress with the filibuster in the Senate.

The Republicans were very skillful at putting Dems on the spot, especially on the Iraq war vote just before midterm elections where senate Dems in unsafe seats would likely pay the price for their brethren's opposition.

That is still not ramming things through. You still have to get the votes. As long you're not blackmailing people over a personal problem, but holding electoral issues over them, I think it's fair enough for electoral politics... in that both sides may want to use such methods at times, and it's visible to the electorate what is happening.

So I reject the notion of wrongdoing by "ramming things through Congress." I'll write about other points later.

Anonymous said...

Did Bush and the Republicans pay for any of their big programs, as they now demand of the Democrats or they will filibuster? No. Are they more skillful at politics? Yes. In this case, was good politics good policy? No.

Lesson: Good politics beats good policy every time. Add in no shame of hypocrisy, continual personal attacks on our opposition (substantiated or not, doesn't matter as long as you're attacking), contiunal de-legitimizing the opposition as anti-America, and you've got a formula for a dictatorship.

ModeratePoli said...

@Anon, You say "... and you've got a formula for a dictatorship." Exaggerate much? Tell that to people who voted in Ohio and Mississippi this year. I see imperfect democracy, but an abundance. Quit complaining just because your side is bad at messaging and is the permanent minority. Start fixing things and you may win more often.

Anonymous said...

Tell that to the people in certain communities in Michigan, where, under a new law, the Governor can appoint anyone he wants to take over a local jurisdiction, cancel all contracts, overrule elected officials, decide the election results and null and void, and act as a virtual dictator over the people who live there regarding their public affairs!! They will not think it's an exaggeration.

I agree the GOP has "better" messaging, but much of it is just a packaged lie with a small grain of truth that they repeat again and again and again because they have more message discipline and deeper pockets.

Dictatorships do not need to be totalitarian. One could argue that China is a dictatorship of this sort.

Further, look at the steps the GOP has taken in Ohio, Wisconsin, Florida and elsewhere to restrict voting rights -- which they argue is for voting "security" -- but the evidence is clear that they just want to suppress Dem-leaning constituencies. Just because they have a colorable claim that there random, provable are occasions of voter fraud shouldn't give them the impetus to seek wholesale restrictions. But that's what they did. That's what dictatorships do, too.

So I'm calling a spade a spade. They are seeking to dictate public policies for their own political benefit. They will use force of law and the authority of the state to accomplish it. From voting rights to abortion to incursion of debt to launching wars, they already have when they could.

If you're looking for anything "moderate" -- in the live and let live motif -- don't expect it from the current crop of Republicans. They are about as moderate and understanding and thoughtful of consequences as Rush Limbaugh.

P.S. If I could control the messaging for the Dems, the situation would be much different.

ModeratePoli said...

Anon says:

"If I could control the messaging for the Dems, the situation would be much different."

That's an idle, blowhard boast, and you know it.

As for the Michigan thing, you don't give any links, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a "control board" that the governor puts in place when he bails out a bankrupt city. We had one in the nearby city of Springfield, MA. It actually worked quite well. Romney probably appointed a few of the members. Scare me some more.

I see my warning about the minority status of libs went unheeded. Big surprise.

As for your other points, there could be an infinite numbers, some of them perfectly valid, and only a few I haven't heard before and already considered. I'm not going to answer them all because it's a waste of my time.